After many hours of discussion, code reading, and in-game testing, I present (what is hopefully) the definitive guide on producing many super knights, boosting knight effectiveness and numbers, and general knight mechanics. Big thank you to sandwich8 for contributing to this - check out his world record runs while you're at it - https://www.reddit.com/user/doctorsandwich8/
Background/Rationale
This was spurred by some readings about how overpowered knight armies can be.
To give an example - 65 knights at 512% effectiveness (very achievable) with an average of 30 prowess, does the damage of 99,840 levies. And unlike going all in on a single MAA, they cannot be countered by your opponent simply stacking the MAA counter. In MP matches, using knights + a MAA counter to the enemy can stop even someone going all in on Varangian Veterans.
Stacking knight effectiveness is actually the more straightforward part. The primary reason for this thread is taking a dive into the question of "How can I improve the average prowess of my knights?" So do note that the focus will be on reliable ways to improve prowess across a large number of knights, and not necessarily to create a handful of super knights over 70 or 80 prowess.
With the following information, in Late Medieval you can expect to reach 723% knight effectiveness from 4 duchies, 8 elephantries, Asatru holy sites, and other dynasty legacies. You will have 71 knights. If reaching 50 prowess on each of them (not even getting Legendary Blademaster for +12), those 71 knights will do as much damage as 256,665 levies.
So let's get the easy part of knight effectiveness and numbers out of the way first!
KNIGHTS NUMBERS AND EFFECTIVENESS
HIGH MEDIEVAL
https://preview.redd.it/om890cv6cq281.jpg?width=1282&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=13d98e4fd65c6534be540e3f2564e618164dd542
LATE MEDIEVAL
Once you reach late medieval tech, you'll be stacking a lot more knight effectiveness on top due to your upgraded duchy buildings providing 300% effectiveness with 4 duchies, maybe some upgraded camelries, but a lot from your elephantries you hold in ~8 counties [domain limit can reach 18 with some investment in perks] providing 128% effectiveness from 8 elephantries at max level. (You can go higher if you stoop to duping buildings and focus on the elephantries, or holding more than 8 jungle counties).
Changes from High to Late are Bolded and Underlined.
https://preview.redd.it/zi6kqrx9cq281.jpg?width=1281&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=217f4bb24e0b20d64c8e141125782e4de791564c
PROWESS
To start with, let's list most major sources of prowess that can be involved in producing the total. For levelled traits, only the maximum value is considered.
With eugenics providing Giant and Herculean, and access to a faith that allows berserker and unrelenting faith, knights of your dynasty that are sent to a holy order can easily reach 50 prowess before even gaining Blademaster traits. These Blademaster Traits can actually be obtained fairly easily, so your male knights can be made to regularly reach 65 prowess if they also happen to take part in a Great Holy War [Warrior of the Faith], and doesn't even require landing them with a county and getting lucky with them picking the prowess boosting martial perks.
Reaching 50 prowess sources: 10 base Prowess, Max Prowess Education [+4], Giant [+6], Herculean [+8], Holy Order Member [+4], House of Warriors [+2], Sea-Wolves [+1], Berserker [+5], Unrelenting Faith [+4], and 3 levels of devotion while holding the two Asatru holy sites [+6]. This is just a nice round number before you will commonly exceed this by getting Crusader and Legendary Blademaster, and increase the base prowess above 10 through constant warfare. So the ceiling is far higher -- you can treat 50 prowess as conservative.
A lot of the below sources rely on RNG - which is fine for stacking on your personal character, but not something you can rely on when build a large knight army between 60-100 strong. What you can be reasonably sure of is that all your knights will have high base prowess which will continue to increase over time from battle, have maximum prowess education, have the giant trait, be herculean, be part of a holy order, obtain bonuses from house of warriors and sea-wolves, have warrior of the faith (crusader), be a berserker, be part of a religion with unrelenting faith, have 3 levels of devotion, and regularly be obtaining legendary blademaster.
There is also Siffa holy site (Azraqism) that gives Prowess +2
Note. There are lots of other sources of Prowess under modifiers, but that may be too unreliable to attain, especially for AI.
[a] Base is the value before any modifiers are applied. Most of this is genetic, and operates under the same rules as other attributes, see my other thread.
[b] Unlocked by Knighthood technology. The level of the prowess education starts out as equal to the martial education obtained. To guarantee max prowess education, the knight must be both herculean and giant, or you need a way to consistently get martial education level 3 and have the knight be at least herculean.
[c] Strong is obtained through events tied to Adorcism and Reincarnation only. Therefore it's not possible to obtain this when going Asatru.
[d] This is never going to be obtained by your Knights.
[e] This is the prowess max veterancy perk that Shieldmaidens can get access to. The Shieldmaiden improvement event is locked to once every 5 years and so it could take multiple decades and nearly 100 battles until they happen to pick Prowess 3 times in a row.
[f] Going to be very RNG for the AI to picks this. Not a reliable source.
[g] Requires the AI to eventually go down the intrigue path, which is more things that need to go right with your knights. There's nothing stopping you from personally taking this.
[h] Not available to Asatru, so this won't form part of your strategy.
*Brave knights won't be cowed by you stacking your Dread, which means it's harder to get them to agree to joining a holy order. For this reason, aiming for this trait is not actually recommended.
Chivalry Focus, Stalwart Leader, Gallant: Can be acquired by granting a single county to someone with the martial education. Characters accrue lifestyle XP that they will spend as soon as they acquire a county title. Up to you if you want to save scum before granting, and reloading until they pick both the chivalry focus and chivalry perk tree. The effect of landing your knights in this way can give a +11 prowess bonus.
Holy Order Member: Acquired by sending your knight to an existing holy order of your religion. While it says they will leave your court, they either don't leave or are invited straight back. Use this to get a free +4 prowess. This is somewhat limited by acceptance, but there is no major penalty if they refuse - the 100 piety cost is refunded if they refuse.
Warrior of the Faith: Obtained by commanders that are leading an army in the current great holy war AS AN ATTACKER, and also acquired by all knights in the army (if their religion is the same as the attacker's). The trait is triggered when entering the realm of the crusade goal - if fighting for Jerusalem, you must be within de jure Jerusalem and enter a barony that is an enemy in the current GHW. Upon entering the barony, the trait will be acquired.*--*IMPORTANT: There is an event that will fire between 15-60 days after acquiring and check if you still meet conditions, and if you don't it will penalise you. So simply wait at least 60 days before switching out commanders and knights to mass acquire the trait.
Wootz Steel: Only possible to acquire this by either starting in India, OR using regional tech sniping strategy by limiting your culture to a single county and then converting counties in other regions to meet the "40% of all X counties are inside Deccan India. Weird thing I've observed about this one is that it doesn't apply to Order Members - so that +1 to Prowess may be impossible to attain for those people.
EUGENICS FOR KNIGHTS
Follow the standard protocol for eugenics by stacking people of your dynasty with positive traits. Giant has both a direct prowess boost and massively increases the lethality of shieldmaidens and berserkers, so you do need to prioritise getting Giant after you acquire Strong Blood.
GENIUS - This is an unexpected one, but this trait can boost the weighting of acquiring your initial Blademaster trait by up to 73% This is due to having a large impact on the chance of getting a Blademaster trait during battles IF your knight successfully wounds. maims, or kills the enemy. See the Prowess Gain from Battle section for a breakdown.
GIANT - In addition to the direct prowess boost it gives, it also massively increases the chance of acquiring the berserker trait and chance of your Berserkers killing enemy knights - a berserker giant has approximately 13% chance every five days to kill, wound, or maim an enemy knight - see Prowess Gain from Battle. Very important note about acquiring this, if you want to truly min-max then DO NOT acquire the Resilient Bloodline legacy. It's nothing but a negative. See Appendix B for an explanation of why.
Because Giant enables the inbred trait to appear, it's important to avoid too much crossbreeding when you're trying to mass produce giant knights. Might be best to first bring in the Giant trait by marrying someone who is completely unrelated to you that already has the trait. Eugenics in this area will then be a gradual process of marrying cousins, and then marrying a person completely unrelated to you who has the Giant trait every second or third generation. With a bit of refinement and balancing, you should be able to stay on top of the inbreds you are producing, due to the following mechanics.
Inbred Trait Acquisition Chance - The chance of getting this trait appears synonymous with the inbreeding factor listed on the wiki#Inbreeding) [according to my own testing] For instance, if you marry direct siblings and one of them has the giant trait (and thereby enables inbred to show up) then the siblings have 30 shared ancestors in the past 4 generations: 2 parents, 4 grandparents, 8 great grandparents, and 16 great-great grandparents. With an inbreeding factor of 3 when the couple has >22 common ancestors, the chance of getting inbred is 30*3 = 90% inbred trait chance.
First cousins on the other hand, have 14 common ancestors and their inbred chance is only 4.62%. So to maintain knights with Herculean, Giant, and Genius try to rely on cousin marriage and avoid too many generations of inbreeding in a row.
Common Ancestors - the calculations actually work backwards, as it looks for unique ancestors in the past 4 generations and works from there. That is why multiple generations of inbreeding can produce worse results, arriving at number of 'common' ancestors between 14 and 22 and give you a much higher inbred chance than you may be expecting. This is why it's best to simplify your work and bring in some fresh giant blood every now and again.
PROWESS GAIN FROM BATTLE
Every 5 days within a battle [according to 00_defines.txt] there is a chance one of your knights will wound, maim, or kill an enemy knight. By default this is relatively small, representing only a 1.3% chance that something will happen - this is per knight. A knight cannot be maimed, wounded, or killed by another knight unless that knight is at least 80% of their prowess value, e.g. a prowess 10 knight cannot be wounded by a knight <8 prowess. Therefore, having very high prowess knights can make them effectively unkillable in combat if the enemy cannot bring high enough prowess.
If trying to maximise Prowess gain and other benefits, you want to engage in battles that are close - lest you kill the enemy too quickly and your knights don't have enough chances to engage the enemy knights.
The chance of an enemy knight being maimed, wounded, or killed can be massively increased if your own knights are berserkers, shieldmaidens, and if they are also giants. While the default rate of knight event might only be 1.3% every 5 days, a berserker giant approaches a knight event rate of 14% - meaning that with all else being equal, they will increase their base prowess and acquire blademaster traits at 10 times the speed.
After many hours of discussion, code reading, and in-game testing, I present (what is hopefully) the definitive guide on producing many super knights, boosting knight effectiveness and numbers, and general knight mechanics
By default, most of the time an enemy is wounded, maimed, or killed - nothing happens (weight of 60). There is a smaller chance the knight that caused this will gain a +1 to their BASE prowess (weight of 30) . And there is an even smaller chance that your Knight gains a Blademaster Trait (weight of 10).
But the probability of nothing happening can be reduced, and the chance to get a Blademaster Trait for your knights can be boosted!The chance of gaining nothing as a result of affecting an enemy knight can be reduced by having knights with a high learning skill. Each point of learning is multiplied by 2 and subtracted from the initial weighting of 60. But this is a somewhat unreasonable thing to focus on, as knights should not be having an education focus once Knighthood is unlocked, and even if Custom Orthodox and holding Alexandria to give +2 per level of devotion, most of your knights won't be gaining that many levels of devotion to make much of a difference (expect +4 most of the time, or +6 best case scenario).
Having a Dynasty with the Warfare 3 - Squire Traditions HALVES the chance that nothing happens.
For your knight's future in acquiring Blademaster traits, being part of a Dynasty with Squire Traditions and being a Genius will massively increase the chance that when these knight events occur, that they gain a benefit. This is far easier to guarantee than requiring your knights have super high learning - but it will definitely help if they do!
To chase getting Legendary Blademaster and attain that +12 to prowess, you want additional modifiers:
1. Martial education
2. Prowess education level 4
3. An existing blademaster trait
4. Good physique (any level)
5. Genius.
Genius gives 3 times the weighting boost than good physique does, and nearly twice as much as having Prowess Education 4.
With all of those modifiers except for an existing Blademaster trait, the weighting goes from the initial small chance of 10, up to 71. Meaning that majority of the time, when your knight kills, injures, or maims an enemy, they will gain a Blademaster trait or level up their existing blademaster trait. Every point in learning will improve your chances, but the largest single contribution is Squire Traditions.Following this strategy will massively increase the rate at which your knights gain Blademaster traits from battle. And combined with Giant Berserkers they will regularly be harming enemy knights and triggering this knight event.
Learning also has additional benefits - see Prowess Gain from Commander Training
LETHALITY OF BERSEKERS AND SHIELDMAIDENS
While the requirement to be at least 80% of the prowess level of the enemy knight to injure, maim, or kill them remains, berserkers and shieldmaidens have something that makes them particularly deadly. Normally, having high prowess will reduce the chance that you die in the event of an enemy knight being able to affect you. For knights having a Prowess of 30, the normal weighting of being killed goes from 30 to 3, and the weighting of being maimed goes from 40 to 4. So prowess over 30 has maximised their ability to shrug off death.
But both berserkers and shieldmaidens have an event that just instantly kills the enemy knight, completely nullifying the harder to kill nature of knights whose prowess is above 30. That 14% chance above, for giant+berserker knights is effectively the odds of instantly killing an enemy knight (whose prowess is not more than 80% of yours) every 5 days. Shieldmaidens can also be berserkers and giants - and those Valkyries have a 23% chance to instantly kill an enemy knight every 5 days.
PROWESS GAIN FROM COMMANDER TRAINING
When you set your Martial to Train Commanders, there is a chance of an event that improves one of your knights. Most of the time this will be a simple +1 to their prowess.But should you aim to have a martial with over 20 martial (easily achieved), knights with a decent learning skill, and your martial having above 15 prowess, you will improve the likelihood of (a) The knight instead gets a +2 to their base prowess; (b) The knight acquires a Blademaster trait.
Each point in Martial skill of the Councillor will increase the weighting of both of these events by 2. Having Prowess of 15 or more has a fairly minor impact, so don't be dismayed if you can't have both - prioritise the high martial skill.Learning skill on a Knight can be difficult to attain, as boosts to Learning skill are most easily acquired from Custom Orthodox religion and holding Alexandria, with an expected +4 learning from two levels of devotion. Yet this would be mutually exclusive with your knights acquiring the Berserker trait, and due to easier access to Blademaster events from killing more knights - this is an easy choice. Learning skill of your knight is a little cherry on top, but prioritise all the other factors first.
CHOICE OF FAITH
A few of the traits and modifiers for prowess are tied to faith: Unrelenting Faith, Berserker, and Shieldmaiden. And picking something like Orthodox to give Alexandria as a Holy Site would increase the Learning of your knights and improve their chances of acquiring Blademaster trait in battle and from the "Train Commanders" activity. As it turns out - you can't juggle multiple religions. To be able to send your female close family members to Shieldmaidens, you yourself must be Norse and Asatru religion. So you cannot have multiple faiths with the Gnosticism trait and still retain access to Shieldmaidens. So you must choose!
What you gain from Asatru
- Two available holy sites that each give +1 prowess per level of devotion. This will give an expected +4 to prowess when you have knights that simply have 2nd level of devotion (Faithful). Jorvik also grants +20% knight effectiveness. This holy site +20% competes with the Orthodox's +20% from Antioch, so Asatru is more effective in providing the same thing plus an additional +4 prowess in most instances.
- Three available holy sites to build a Grand Temple on, each granting +15% knight effectiveness.
- Warmonger tenet means that in battle there is a fair chance one of your knights will rip the head off the enemy and gain the Berserker trait, gaining +5 prowess. The Berserker trait also massively increases their deadliness in combat and means that you will have more "Enemy knight killed" events, which will both increase their base prowess by 1 more regularly, but will also give more opportunities for Blademaster trait to be acquired. This feature here is likely to have the single largest impact on Prowess over time.
- Ability to later reform to switch out Blot for Unrelenting Faith and every proponent gains +4 prowess. Priests can now also serve as commanders and knights, which after setting up theocratic vassals you can take advantage of to provide an unlimited labour pool to maintain a minimum standard of prowess. Every time a theocrat dies, another one is generated. So eventually you may get some decent prowess priests serving as knights.
- Shieldmaidens\*. Close family members can be made into Shield Maidens (as long as they have at least 12 prowess, which they always should after getting Herculean Giants). Shieldmaidens immediately gain a +3 bonus to their prowess, which is similar to sending someone to a Holy Order (+4) but much easier to fulfil if they're not in line to inherit! They can also be sent to a Holy Order as well. To make Shieldmaidens you must be both Asatru religion and is available to Norse only. That means the Norse culture split will lay this to rest, so you will have to stay as Norse culture to keep this option open.
If strictly pursuing maximum prowess and deadliness of knights, Asatru is the clear choice.
*I've added a few notes on shieldmaiden veterancy. See Appendix A for this.
What you gain from Custom Orthodox
1. Antioch as a holy site to give +10% knight effectiveness. Loses out to the Asatru holy sites in terms of raw Prowess.
2. Can build Cologne Cathedral and gain +20% knight effectiveness.
3. Jerusalem is a holy site, with the building granting +20% knight effectiveness.
4. Ability to benefit from Hagia Sophia by holding Constantinople. This building provides +2 knights and +20% knight effectiveness, along with many other benefits outside of pure knight power.
5. Alexandria as a holy site. This boosts learning by 2 for every level of devotion. For knights, this makes them more likely to gain Prowess and Blademaster traits from being trained by your Councillor, and also more likely to gain benefits if they kill, maim, or injure enemies in combat.
Orthodoxy is fantastic in its general benefits and is great when chasing a high tech speed, as that increase in learning can boost the chance you gain tech progress each month. Arguably Orthodoxy has the best general holy sites in the game, as many of the holy sites in Europe are valid if you are some type of Christian. So Orthodoxy allows you to have your cake and eat it too. It does lose out to Asatru when pursuing pure Prowess of your knights.
Azraqism religion (Islamic) [Thanks to wtf634]
- Holy site of Siffa grants Prowess +2 and 20% knight effectiveness
- Jerusalem building to grant +20% knight effectiveness
- Medina special building grants +20% knight effectiveness, and the holy site gives +1 diplomacy per level of devotion
- Holy site of Mecca grants +10% effectiveness
- Kufa also gives +1 intrigue per level of devotion
- Also gives access to Hagia Sophia building conversion, giving you +20% knight effectiveness and +2 knights, along with other general benefits.
- General benefit of -20% men at arms maintenance from Mecca and Kufa
So the Azraqism religion gives you a bit more knight effectiveness than a Custom Orthodox with a total 90% as well as a +2 prowess to all your knights, and actually gives 5% more knight effectiveness when compared with Asatru. But it does mean you will not be able to make Shieldmaidens and miss out on +3 prowess, greater lethality of knights and more knight improvement events, as well as never obtaining a possible +12 prowess only obtainable by Shieldmaidens. If choosing this religion you will still need to ensure your knights are of North-Germanic culture to still allow them to obtain the Berserker trait.
CONCLUSIONS
1. Reformed Asatru is ideal, with Unrelenting Faith, Warmonger, and with Clerical Gender as Both [to inspire your knights/shieldmaidens to join a holy order for the court chaplain's glory]. Take the following legacies: Blood 2, Warfare 3, Kin 5, then Pillage 1. Do not get Blood 3. Keep gender to male dominated to maintain ability to make Shieldmaidens.
2. Use eugenics to acquire Herculean, Giant, and Genius traits for your knights.
3. With how many Giants you'll be wanting, and sending people to Holy Order meaning they can't marry and produce children, your religion should use Polygamy - but that's nothing new for eugenics runs.
4. Send your knights to holy order when available, and ideally wait until their level of devotion is at least Faithful, as joining the Order will immediately grant them 1 level of devotion and another +2 to their prowess as Asatru when holding the holy sites. They should not be married, not be Cynical or Ambitious, ideally have the Warrior of the Faith Trait, have +100 opinion of you, are terrified of you - and really like your court chaplain. Yep you read that correctly. To do this, have Temporal and Revocable and put in someone who is Beautiful and Amazonian to stack their opinion attraction. Your knights will be..."Inspired" by your Court Chaplain, and will get a +50 to their acceptance chance if they have an opinion of 80 or more of your court chaplain. With all of these factors you'll maximise their acceptance chance. If they refuse, you can try again in 10 years, so do try and be successful the first time.
5. Hold a collection of counties to hand out. Grant these counties to your male holy order members and hope they take the Gallant tree and Chivalry Focus. This will only ever be granting benefits to a relatively small number of your knights - with 60 knights requiring 60 counties, and there's no guarantee they go down the Gallant tree and take that particular focus.
6. Keep sending your knights into battle, and make the battles last as long as possible by not overwhelming the enemy too quickly. This will keep improving their prowess almost every time they kill, maim, or injure an enemy knight and can give Blademaster traits. Shieldmaidens specifically have a veterancy system and every 20 battles they fight in they'll choose an option to improve either their Prowess, Martial, or Intrigue.
7. Restoring Carolingian Borders can give access to Knighthood early.
8. Your dynasty's knights should easily be able to reach 50 prowess, and reach 62 prowess when they obtain the Legendary Blademaster trait (which they will do so quite regularly). A portion of your knights can exceed this if they are landed and gain +11 prowess from the Chivalry Focus and Gallant Tree. Shieldmaidens can be made from your close family members and get access to a special +12 prowess trait if they fight in a good 100+ battles, so your highest prowess people might actually be Shieldmaidens! This takes a significantly longer time than simply getting male knights in a holy order and granting them a county.
9. Maximum expected prowess for your knights [shieldmaidens particularly] is 87. Male knights can reach about 86 in male dominated religion, as while they can't gain the shieldmaiden trait of +12 they can just hold a county and get +11 from Chivalry focus and Gallant tree. You can go higher than this, as there is no limit on the Base prowess, so as long as they continue to kill, maim, or injure enemy knights they will be increasing their Prowess.
10. Holding 4 duchies and 8 elephantries, along with Asatru holy sites and building Grand Temples, Chivalric Dominance, Knighthood tech, and House of Warriors legacy, should bring you to 723% knight effectiveness.
11. Having knights who are giant, berserker, and shieldmaiden, will completely obliterate any knights and level up their prowess and blademaster traits like nothing else.
12. Ultra-Abuse-Min-Maxing-No-Shame Players
For ultra min-maxing either conquer 80% of all Norse counties so that when the culture split happens you remain Norse and keep your access to Shieldmaidens, or use people from Iceland to educate your heir to go back to being Norse, or just move your capital to Iceland. Abuse theocratic vassals to make most of your power base in the form of theocrats that won't rebel against you, and go out to hold 10+ duchies personally. You can't make your knights out of people who are vassals of vassals, so you can't land dynasty members to act as your knights by placing them under someone else. They're going to hate you if you use this strategy, and will therefore be unwilling to join holy orders and allow you to keep cycling the counties for that +4 and +11 bonus to prowess. So your average prowess of knights will be lower with this strategy, but you'll have a much higher knight effectiveness and number of knights that will be superior to fewer knights that have double your prowess.
Appendix A
SHIELDMAIDEN VETERANCY
For each battle a Shieldmaiden is in, they will gain 1 veterancy. Once they reach a threshold of 20, an event occurs where the Shieldmaiden gains a martial boost, prowess boost, or Intrigue boost - decided by an Option.When making the choice, the AI starts out by weighting them all equally and this chance is modified by their Honor and Vengefulness in the case of picking Prowess. Because veterancy is therefore very slow to gain, and when they gain it the AI may not pick the Prowess option you want, it's considered a non-reliable means to boost Prowess.
Appendix B
The Resilient Bloodline provides "-30% chance of inheriting negative congenital traits" and will apply to Giant, as it considered negative. So you're just making it more difficult to get large amounts of eugenic super knights.
Despite how the second part of the legacy is worded "Chance of new bad Congenital traits -30%" this does not actually reduce the chance of acquiring the inbred trait. Yeah, you read that right. I did a big amount of in-game testing to verify this - it was horrible.
It only affects first gaining an inbred_enable = yes trait, and Giant is one of them. So getting this perk will not reduce the amount of inbreds you end up producing due to your genetic relative having the inbred enabling trait of Giant. Getting this legacy will leave you with just as many inbreds but less good giants.
![[Bug?] About to lose my independence war despite occupying my Liege's capital for several years](https://preview.redd.it/duuhzmgurp281.png?width=320&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=077abc7c932dfbbe4c0b1cea0eb7f3850102f9ae "[Bug?] About to lose my independence war despite occupying my Liege's capital for several years")
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